In the 141st episode of the IoT Use Case Podcast, Madeleine Mickeleit talks to Toni Felsner, Product Manager at REHAU, Michael Rehm, Product Engineer at REHAU, and Tias-A. Krügel, Product Owner at grandcentrix. The focus is on the challenges that building operators have to overcome in connection with water damage and water hygiene, as well as the IoT solutions that REHAU and grandcentrix have developed to address these problems.
Podcast episode summary
Water damage in buildings, whether caused by sudden pipe bursts or difficult to detect micro-leaks, causes billions in repair costs worldwide every year. For facility managers and building operators, this not only means high costs and time-consuming damage repairs, but also long-term problems such as mold growth, which can lead to serious health risks.
In collaboration with grandcentrix, REHAU has developed a water management system that is specifically designed to solve these problems. The focus here is on preventive measures such as the early detection of leaks and monitoring water quality. By using smart sensors and a user-friendly app, building operators can be alerted to potential hazards in real time and take immediate action to prevent major damage.
In addition, the system enables a detailed analysis of water consumption, which is becoming increasingly important in view of rising water costs and the growing need for sustainable resource management. The integration of IoT technology into building technology not only offers immediate security benefits, but also supports efficient, cost-saving real estate management in the long term.
In this episode, REHAU and grandcentrix show how they are enabling the transition from reactive measures to proactive, data-driven water management.
Podcast interview
Today, I’ll be talking about an IoT use case from REHAU, a plastics manufacturer based in the town of Rehau, Bavaria. Joining us is our IoT partner grandcentrix, a Vodafone subsidiary. They will be discussing the RE.GUARD 2.0 water safety system. You’ll learn what it’s all about and which use cases it can solve. As always, you can find all the information at iotusecase.com.
Hello and a warm welcome to Tias, Michael, and Toni. How are you all doing? Tias, how are you? Where are you right now?
Tias
I’m working from home. I’m doing well, even though it’s raining outside. But since I’m from Solingen, the rainiest city in Germany, that’s nothing new.
Good to know. Michael, Toni, how are you? You’re not together here, are you? Are you also working from home?
Toni
We’re apart, but still close to each other. I’m working from home near Nuremberg. The weather is good here compared to Solingen. I’m looking forward to the podcast.
Yeah, you’re in Nuremberg, right? That’s cool because I now live in Erlangen near Nuremberg. So, we’re not that far apart, even though our company is based in Berlin. Greetings to Nuremberg!
Michael
I’m at the office today, so even closer to you, in Eltersdorf.
Yeah, that’s right next door. Nice! Maybe you could briefly introduce yourselves. Michael, would you like to start? What do you do at REHAU?
Michael
I’ve been with REHAU for about three and a half years as a Product Engineer for the development of the RE.GUARD 2.0. I coordinate the technical topics with the developers, manage tests, and handle customer service and other tasks with the responsible colleagues.
Very nice. And Toni, what exactly do you do?
Toni
I’ve also been with REHAU for about three and a half years as a Smart Home Product Manager in the building technology sector, and I oversee the RE.GUARD project, particularly app development and connectivity.
Are there multiple divisions at your company, or are you specialized in building technology?
Toni
REHAU is a large company with many business areas. We’ve been around for 75 years, founded by Helmut Wagner. Back then, he had the idea to replace existing materials with plastics to save costs and weight, and to improve processing. REHAU has continued to evolve. We are active in various sectors: automotive, windows, furniture, bathroom surfaces, kitchens, industry, energy, and polymer technology.
Right, your core business lies in the processing of plastics and polymer solutions. We’ll discuss that in more detail shortly. Tias, would you like to briefly introduce yourself?
Tias
I am a Product Owner at grandcentrix in the Project Execution department. We take care of the delivery organization, mainly in agile projects with Scrum Masters. I’ve been with the company for a little over four years.
What I find fascinating about grandcentrix is that you’re a subsidiary of Vodafone and you also help clients develop their own products. You guide them through the process and create products that are then sold to end customers. Is that your area as well?
Tias
Exactly, grandcentrix consists of two major units One is Products, which develops its own products, and I work in the Solutions department. As the name suggests, we are solution partners for our clients and develop products together with them – end-to-end.
[05:27] Challenges, potentials and status quo – This is what the use case looks like in practice
Could you briefly explain to us and our listeners what today’s topic is? What project are you presenting?
Toni
Today, we’re discussing the RE.GUARD 2.0 project. As you’ve already mentioned, it’s a water safety system. It consists of a main device that is installed in the water pipe and detects leaks, even micro-leaks. In case of an emergency, it shuts off the water supply to prevent further damage.
Additionally, there’s a water sensor that can be placed in areas like the basement, kitchen, or bathroom. This sensor detects water entry and alerts the RE.GUARD, which can then shut off the water line. It can also be used independently.
The third product is the app, a so-called companion app, that connects all the devices and allows the user to control them via their smartphone.
To better understand the use case: It is mainly about leak detection, right? Or are there other applications?
Toni
Yes, there are other aspects as well. Of course, water safety is a big part. Ideally, you don’t hear anything from the app or the device because no leak has occurred. But that alone isn’t enough. We conducted a lot of research and spoke with many customers. Users are not only concerned with water safety, but also with water hygiene.
This involves warnings about stagnant water, as it can promote the growth of legionella, which is harmful to health. There’s also a warning about water temperature when it becomes problematic.
Another aspect is awareness of water consumption. Hardly anyone constantly checks their water meter, but when you can see your consumption data and trends on your smartphone, you gain a better understanding of your water usage. This should also motivate people to use water more sparingly.
When I hear that, I think many of our listeners from different industries, especially those involved in digitalization projects, could be interested. So, the water safety topic mainly concerns leak detection, right? And the hygiene aspect – is that also relevant for the food and beverage industry? Which industries could this be interesting for?
Toni
Yes, the system is primarily designed for single and two-family homes and is aimed more at end consumers. The food and beverage industry isn’t directly covered, as they likely have their own highly specialized systems that meet stricter requirements.
And the awareness of consumption is ultimately relevant to everyone, especially when it comes to sustainability, right?
Michael
Exactly, the trend is clear. In the past, we focused primarily on saving energy. Today, due to climate changes, water is becoming an increasingly scarce resource. That’s why we want to encourage users to be more conscious of their water usage and to conserve it.
An important topic and an exciting project! How did you come to bring grandcentrix on board?
Toni
We already had the first generation of RE.GUARD 1.0, from which we learned a lot. It was and still is a great product – I personally have it installed, and it even detected a water damage incident at my place, shutting off the water in time to prevent further damage. Despite the success, we learned a lot, for example with the radio protocol. The device used a Z-Wave protocol, which worked well, but customers wanted Wi-Fi and less additional hardware, such as a gateway.
That’s how the concept for the new version came about. We searched for a suitable partner and ultimately chose grandcentrix – a decision that, in hindsight, was absolutely the right one.
Very nice! Before we dive deeper into the topics of time, cost, and sustainability, I’m interested in your vision regarding digitalization. You come from a very traditional market segment and have been a market leader for many years. What has changed with digitalization, and what is your vision for yourselves and your customers?
Toni
We operate in the building technology sector and likely have something installed in almost every house – whether it’s drainpipes, drinking water pipes, or underfloor heating. Still, hardly anyone knows the brand unless they are a professional, like an installer or a craftsman. Our strategy, therefore, is to create meaningful additions to our portfolio that make our customers’ homes even better. A digital product, of course, makes absolute sense here.
Many listeners from the building sector are likely tuning in to this podcast. Why should they delve deeper into this topic? What is the business case behind it? Can you explain the typical types of leaks and the associated costs?
Michael
Gladly. There are two types of leaks: macro-leaks, typically a pipe burst, and micro-leaks. A pipe burst, like when a washing machine hose bursts, is usually detected quickly. The RE.GUARD reacts immediately, shuts off the water supply, and minimizes the damage. In such cases, the reaction time is often short, so the damage is usually limited.
It gets more complicated with micro-leaks, such as a dripping faucet or a faulty toilet flush. These can lead to significant water costs over time, even though water is still relatively inexpensive. It gets more problematic if the leak is behind a wall. It often takes a long time before the moisture becomes visible, and in the meantime, mold and major damage can occur. Then walls have to be torn down, and installations need to be replaced. Insurance companies estimate the average damage to be around 2,500 euros. However, what cannot be replaced are the intangible losses, like the stress caused by weeks of drying machines or the loss of personal belongings with sentimental value.
Yes, absolutely. I know this issue from private households and I’m now trying to apply it to the industry and B2B segment, especially for building operators and facility managers. If I imagine this on a larger scale, how do they typically react to leaks today without smart solutions? What is the usual process after damage occurs?
Michael
Typically, the damage is noticed when water starts dripping somewhere, or a wall becomes damp or brittle. The first step is usually to turn off the water and call a leak locator to identify where the problem is. After that, an installer is hired to fix the damage. Often, only the immediate damage is repaired, but especially in older buildings, there’s a risk of further damage, as the entire system is often compromised. Facility managers and building supervisors always keep in mind that another issue could arise at any time, and they need to take preventive measures and monitor the situation.
You mentioned insurance earlier. Do you have any insights into the potential this offers for the insurance industry? I once did an episode with HDI, though it was some time ago, and we have a few contacts with insurance companies. Are there new insurance packages or products emerging from the use of water sensors? What does the future look like in this area?
Toni
Yes, definitely. Especially during the concept phase, we had a lot of contact with insurance companies. An interesting fact: In Germany, there is a pipe burst or water damage every 30 seconds. This adds up to 3.8 billion euros in damage per year. Naturally, insurance companies are very interested in reducing these costs. As Michael explained earlier, we cannot prevent a pipe burst with our system, but we can minimize the damage. That’s the key point that interests insurance companies.
A huge topic that continues to evolve. For the listeners: Feel free to subscribe to the podcast; soon, there will be an episode specifically on the topic of insurance and leaks. But back to IoT. I’m also curious about the data and data types required for such projects. You mentioned water sensors and also talked about radio protocols and Wi-Fi. What kinds of sensor data are typically involved, and how often do they need to be sent? Do you have any insights on that?
Tias
The hardware itself comes from REHAU, so I don’t know the exact details of the built-in sensors. But in general, we know which types of data are transmitted. It depends on the functionalities: water pressure, flow rate, total volume – these are important factors. The RE.GUARD continuously measures these data points and sends them as telemetry data to the cloud. This is particularly relevant for statistics and consumption analysis, for example, how much water was used last month compared to the previous month. There is a continuous data stream used for recommendations, and then there’s event-based data when something unusual happens. In such cases, the RE.GUARD reacts automatically without waiting for user confirmation. These events are triggered when values deviate from preset thresholds. When this happens, an event is generated, which is then processed in the backend. Either the user receives a notification in the app, or messages are sent to the message center, which are usually less urgent. If necessary, for example when the user accesses the statistics mode in the app, the relevant data are displayed.
I’m also interested in the topic of water hygiene. What data are needed for that? Are there special sensors used for this?
Michael
We use the basic functions of the RE.GUARD to measure water flow. When water stagnates, no water flows through the pipes, and we track that using ultrasonic sensors. We monitor the duration of time when there is no flow. Typically, after 72 hours of stagnation, the piping system should be flushed to remove stagnant water. We also have temperature sensors installed that measure the inlet temperature of the water. Once the water temperature rises above 25 degrees Celsius, actions should be taken to ensure water hygiene.
[20:01] Solutions, offerings and services – A look at the technologies used
What were the technical challenges in capturing this data? Did you do it yourself initially? When did grandcentrix come into play?
Toni
As I mentioned earlier, we started with the first generation of RE.GUARD and learned a lot from it. We then worked together with grandcentrix in the concept phase. First, we defined the hardware and the radio protocols. Then we focused on UX/UI and, together with the experts from grandcentrix, analyzed the existing app and solution. We also drew on insights from other areas and benchmarks to maximize the value for our customers.
The project was developed in an agile manner, which was ideal in this case. For example, we realized that native apps offered a better customer experience than we had originally thought. This also had a positive impact on costs. We worked on the project step by step in sprints and continuously verified the results through user testing. This led to a very customer-friendly and simple solution.
Michael
Exactly. As Tias mentioned, grandcentrix serves as a solution provider as well as a developer and producer. This dual role was a great help during development, as they understood both perspectives and could bring expertise from both the firmware side of the devices and the app development side. This allowed them to fully leverage their comprehensive understanding.
Tias, for those who may want to implement a similar project, what are the typical building blocks you deliver? We’ve already heard about the radio protocols. Can you explain a bit more about the components your solution includes?
Tias
From grandcentrix’s point of view, we generally supply everything that is needed for an end-to-end solution. This ability to understand both sides helps us enormously, especially when a customer like REHAU has the hardware and we develop the backend. Our backend developers are used to communicating with hardware teams, which significantly reduces barriers. For a complete solution, you need hardware, a backend, and, in most cases, an app.
In the case of RE.GUARD, the water sensor and the main device were developed by the client. It was an iterative process, where we implemented the hardware statuses in our sprints. Our goal was to have a functional result after each sprint – an app and a backend that interacted with the current hardware version. This allowed us to test everything in real-time.
In addition, we agreed on a radio standard, a data model, and a backend platform. grandcentrix works with both Azure and AWS, and since REHAU is an AWS company, we built the solution on AWS. The requirement was to use as much as possible “off the shelf”, i.e. to develop only what was really necessary and to use as many Amazon-native features as possible, such as Device Shadows and the Timestream database. We managed that well. Of course, there were occasional discussions because there are often different ways to achieve a goal, but we always worked together to find a solution and a valid reason. The key points were clear from the beginning.
As Toni already mentioned, a native app was the better choice for REHAU compared to a framework. The cloud application was also clearly defined, and the rest was delivered accordingly. Everything fit together well.
And how does the data visualization and evaluation work in the app, which you host on AWS? Toni, is this something that REHAU handles? What does the end result look like for the user?
Toni
In the app, the end customer can view their water consumption on a daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly basis. Additionally, the connection to the backend in the AWS cloud allows us to access the devices directly in the event of support or service cases. If the customer submits a service request, we can respond quickly and check whether the settings are correct or if there’s an issue on the customer’s side – essentially, remote maintenance.
We regularly maintain the products, for example, through over-the-air firmware updates for the sensors and the RE.GUARD. A big advantage is that we have the data, and based on this, we can continuously improve the products.
Okay. So, you’ve now developed a new product together, the RE.GUARD 2.0, which you sell to your customers. You’re acting here as a partner, and your customer is likely a facility manager, a building operator, or a craftsman who implements it operationally. In the end, he has the device you developed, so you sell it directly to the end customer, right?
Toni
Exactly, though this varies somewhat by country, depending on the sales channels and how many levels are integrated. But you’re addressing an important point: the device must be integrated into the water line, which usually requires an installer – similar to electrical work, where you’d also hire an electrician. The installer typically handles the installation around the water line, but often has no interest in installing the app and performing the onboarding. That’s why one of the most important requirements was that the onboarding process had to be very simple. We opted for a Bluetooth connection to get the device onto the Wi-Fi network. The step-by-step guide in the app is designed to be very intuitive, so it’s easy to use for both young, tech-savvy people and older users. The user group is very broad, so the setup process needed to be understandable and easy for everyone.
[27:50] Transferability, scaling and next steps – how you can utilize this use case
Tias, what if my use case isn’t related to leak detection? You work with many different customers and industries. For example, you have a client who operates rolling shutters. If someone has a similar case, can this be transferred to other industries?
Tias
Yes, absolutely. If we abstract it a bit, as Toni mentioned earlier, we’re talking about a companion app that acts as an interface to a device. That device could be a rolling shutter, a hospital bed, or a lighting installation – smart lighting is also a big topic at grandcentrix. It doesn’t matter what device is being controlled; we offer solutions for various products. As long as it’s ethically and morally acceptable, there’s nothing we can’t connect in some way. We’ve already connected door openers and many other things. Ultimately, it’s about finding the best solution. We talk to customers, listen to their requirements, and figure out what’s feasible together.
Yes, that’s the exciting thing about IoT. There are so many different use cases, and it’s fascinating to see what you’ve presented today. If anyone is interested or has a similar case, I’ll link your contacts in the show notes – for you, Tias, and of course, for Michael and Toni as well. Feel free to reach out to them on LinkedIn. I’ll also provide all the information about the project in the show notes. Thank you all very much! I still have many more questions, but we’ll save those for a future session. I found it very exciting and clear to understand the business case, why you’re doing this, what’s happening in the market, and the value it brings.
I wish you lots of success with your future projects and the further development of this one. Thank you, and I’ll leave the last word to you.
Michael
Thank you very much. I also found it very interesting. It was an exciting insight, and the collaboration with grandcentrix, Tias, and his team was really great and instructive. We gained many valuable experiences, and I look forward to continuing to work together just as well.
Toni
I agree. As I already mentioned, it was definitely the right decision to work with grandcentrix. They are absolute experts, especially in the area of cybersecurity, which is extremely important for us. It was about future-proofing – after all, we’re talking about building technology, not consumer electronics. That means the systems we install now won’t be replaced every two years; they have to remain secure and reliable for the long term. This definitely provides more security for our customers. It’s a digital product that is continuously being developed, and we will keep a close eye on customer needs as they arise to address them.
Tias
I’ll happily return the thanks. It was and still is a great project. Our backlog is still long, so we’ve got plenty to do. We’re looking forward to the customer feedback because that will tell us what priorities to set. Agile methods worked wonderfully for this project. Agile sometimes gets criticized, but for this project, it was exactly the right approach – systematically working through the backlog and delivering something useful in each sprint that everyone could test. This strengthened both the team and the customer relationship, and it improved the product. It may not have always been “Scrum by the book,” but it was definitely a successful project.
Thank you, and I hope you all have a great rest of the week. Take care.
Michael
Bye.
Tias
Goodbye, thank you!
